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Offline phil page  
#21 Posted : 19 July 2020 15:59:33(UTC)
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Should get them this week Simon
Phil
Offline Simon Briggs  
#22 Posted : 19 July 2020 17:52:24(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: phil page Go to Quoted Post
Should get them this week Simon


Thanks Phil,

Simon
Offline Chag  
#23 Posted : 20 July 2020 06:29:40(UTC)
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I happen to be just trying the Gaia III under my ProAc D28 (27kg). Like many, I was considering the Podium but wouldn’t go for size 1 because the D28 are due to go sometime in the next 18 months.
The Gaia III absorb, in my configuration, a large part of the booming but not all of it. They bring focus, airless (transparency) to the entire spectrum but more particularly to the higher bass and low midrange. There is also an impression of enhanced beauty and easiness in the message probably because some edging is gone in the upper midrange and treble. However, it is true that they take (some) life out of the system.
I then removed 2 of 8 of the Gaia’s to have them work more in compression. Two Gaia’s in the front and one centered in the back, therefore not screwed in. I gained back 75% of the PRaT (D28s were previously on spikes and Fraim Chips) but lost 50% of the enhancement. Possibly an acceptable trade for now, but not a final answer in the long term. I will go back to spikes and Fraim Chips this week to confirm with B/A tests.

Chag -

Edited by user 25 July 2020 19:57:42(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Martin Colloms  
#24 Posted : 20 July 2020 15:10:17(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: KevinF Go to Quoted Post
Guilty as charged.

As MC found with his trials of the Magico footers, this particular interaction with the room is not always simple. What works very well in one setting may be quite inappropriate in another. Like me, you will no doubt have looked at the IsoAcoustics written material and formed a view about whether the products appear to be well-founded on physics.

Perhaps the most pragmatic advice I have seen about these and other isolation devices (and it surely holds good for most stuff) is, if you can, try before you buy.

KevinF.


Many products will decouple and/or isolate, but this is a complex interface with many variables:

the speaker design and construction

whether it responds to decoupling, or to best coupling

the several floor/building constructions you may experience

you may get better mid transparency and loose some timing

you may get more tuneful bass and loose slam and attack

you may get deeper images and loose mid dynamics and expression

.............do not jump to conclusions: 'wow I have made a difference'

Try to assess the whole sound picture, the quality of musical experience

before rushing to a concluson

Martin Colloms


Offline Folkman  
#25 Posted : 20 July 2020 15:43:03(UTC)
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Hi , if i may add my experience to this.

Only last week i put my PMC MB2se on some Townshend Podiums. This is in a purpose built music room with a solid concrete floor and treated with GIK acoustic panels.

I must say i was very apprehensive about using them, just seems counterintuitive, but decided to give them a go anyway.

Without listing every area that was improved its easier to just say there was an improvement in every aspect of the sound with no downsides at all. Considering the room was already treated and sounding great just shows how effective the Podiums are. I would say they are as effective, and complementary with, as treating the room with the GIK panels. The thing is they dont change the sound you have , just make it better.

They can also be bought direct from Townshend at a very reduced price.

[img=UserPostedImage]system[/img]

[img=UserPostedImage]system2[/img]

[img=UserPostedImage]PMC MB2se / Townshend podium[/img]

Edited by user 20 July 2020 15:44:49(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Simon Briggs  
#26 Posted : 20 July 2020 15:49:15(UTC)
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Welcome Folkman, to the forums, a lovely dedicated room too Smile

Thanks Martin for the detailed insight.

I may explore further this interesting topic of isolation / platforms for my new speaker build, but at around 150 kgs + I will have to think carefully about this and dust off my Father's lathe to machine custom items for my own experimentation and research..

Timing, musicality, bass slam and dynamics are paramount for me, so will need to be very careful in balancing these and other important facets so as to not prejudice my priorities. I will have to factor in the mass of my loudspeakers which at 150 kgs is a guess as they are not even built yet!!

Much fun ahead

Simon

Edited by user 20 July 2020 15:51:16(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Pete_w  
#27 Posted : 20 July 2020 18:31:45(UTC)
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As the original poster in this thread, I'm really enjoying it, thank you everyone. All I need is my new room finished now - not long til October... :-)

Very interesting to see our new member Folkman's room (welcome!) with the carpet; that echoes what we're doing - carpet and low-tog underlay over a solid concrete slab with UFH in it. So you've clearly just plonked the Podiums on the carpet and let them get on with it?

We're not (presently planning to...) going for treatment panels in our room. We have an awful lot of books, so the general plan is to kill two birds with the one stone - somewhere to put the books and lots of diffusion Cool. On the whole Martin Logans are relatively unfussy, except about what's directly behind them, so we hope we've done enough. We have built the back wall behind the sofa as a bass trap (because we could), whether it works is to be seen. It'll probably be sub-optimal compared with corner bass traps, but they simply weren't going to fit into the scheme, and we figured that any trappage was probably better than none. We've been really lucky in our current room, we have a big set of bifold doors behind the sofa, so they move slightly under pressure and act as a bass gate/trap ("it's gone past your ears once, you don't want to hear it again...").

Thank you all!

Pete
Offline Folkman  
#28 Posted : 21 July 2020 18:15:54(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pete_w Go to Quoted Post


Very interesting to see our new member Folkman's room (welcome!) with the carpet; that echoes what we're doing - carpet and low-tog underlay over a solid concrete slab with UFH in it. So you've clearly just plonked the Podiums on the carpet and let them get on with it?

Pete


Townshend do supply a setting up instruction sheet which covers the basics.

But i found care has to be taken in setting up to get the best from them.

First thing to note is that on a carpet with underlay the feet do sink in quite a bit, obviously depends on the weight of speaker. That then brings the underside of the podium very close to the carpet, which i was concerned about. To prevent that the feet can be adjusted to give extra clearance. But then you can find when you put the speaker on, depending on its weight distribution, you may have to further adjust the feet, until you find you run out of adjustment. You can adjust the load pod knob to set them for the desired speakers and to level the speaker. But i found we had to level one speaker, my floor does have a low spot in just the wrong place - sods law, quite a lot with one of the cells. That then reduce the free movement in that corner.

So persevered and with a bit of time and patience i did manage to get it level and freely moving. The other podium was a doddle.

Offline phil page  
#29 Posted : 25 July 2020 18:15:06(UTC)
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I've now tried the Isoacoustics Gaia III feet under my PMC 25/26's, in my second system. The speakers sit on an engineered wooden floor over concrete. We heard a clear improvement, and not so subtle - crisper all through the frequency range, and the bass clearly tidied up, removing some low-end smear. So they're staying. They're not cheap, but they do appear to be beautifully made, and they certainly work for me.

I also have some Orea feet that go under gear to try out.
Phil
Offline KevinF  
#30 Posted : 29 July 2020 19:41:33(UTC)
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It is interesting to observe the quite notable ignorance surrounding this subject. Some companies seem to regard spikes as isolation; others as coupling. Little wonder that *tweaks* such as these have such a bad reputation when vendors evidently have such a poor grasp of even the fundamentals of what it is they are selling.

Edited by user 31 July 2020 20:15:47(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 1 user thanked KevinF for this useful post.
George47 on 30/07/2020(UTC)
Offline Simon Briggs  
#31 Posted : 02 August 2020 12:43:15(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: phil page Go to Quoted Post
I've now tried the Isoacoustics Gaia III feet under my PMC 25/26's, in my second system. The speakers sit on an engineered wooden floor over concrete. We heard a clear improvement, and not so subtle - crisper all through the frequency range, and the bass clearly tidied up, removing some low-end smear. So they're staying. They're not cheap, but they do appear to be beautifully made, and they certainly work for me.

I also have some Orea feet that go under gear to try out.


Thanks Phil,

Gaia I's do not have the load capacity for my new Loudspeakers, but expensive..... but I may machine my own custom alternative?

Do not want to invest too much time and money, if in doing so, will concede timing and dynamics.

My new loudspeakers (own engineered design) will weigh 150kgs or a little more, so will have to think carefully about this.

My room is in a Victorian house with suspended but strong wooden floors

Simon

Edited by user 02 August 2020 14:02:50(UTC)  | Reason: Revised content Gaia Is have limited load capacity

Offline phil page  
#32 Posted : 02 August 2020 16:01:59(UTC)
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Simon

There are higher load capacity feet too, called Gaia-Titan. But they are of course even more expensive, from about £900 per set I think?
Phil
Offline Folkman  
#33 Posted : 02 August 2020 17:40:26(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Simon Briggs Go to Quoted Post

Timing, musicality, bass slam and dynamics are paramount for me, so will need to be very careful in balancing these and other important facets so as to not prejudice my priorities. I will have to factor in the mass of my loudspeakers which at 150 kgs is a guess as they are not even built yet!!
Simon


Simon , i found timing, musicality, bass slam and dynamics were all improved when adding the Townshend Podiums. After all these years of having spikes it sure does seem counterintuitive but having never heard a bad report of the Podiums i took a chance and am glad i did.

The Podiums can handle up to 200kg and possibly more if you had thought about that route.
Offline Pete_w  
#34 Posted : 02 August 2020 19:15:16(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: KevinF Go to Quoted Post
It is interesting to observe the quite notable ignorance surrounding this subject. Some companies seem to regard spikes as isolation; others as coupling. Little wonder that *tweaks* such as these have such a bad reputation when vendors evidently have such a poor grasp of even the fundamentals of what it is they are selling.


You're probably right, Kevin, but actually they're probably both isolation *and* coupling, at different frequencies. Feed that into the marketing BS generator and, well, here we are.

I must admit, as someone who (in previous houses) used to religiously spike his speakers through the carpets into the concrete floors beneath, I've never really bought into the explanations (even though I did it, 'cos I am - or was - a flat earther at heart). I'm sure we've all had the experience of carefully setting up the spikes into the concrete floor, making sure the speaker is steady, and so on. A few weeks later, it's been bashed with the hoover, elbowed on the way to open and close the curtains behind it, had the cats jump on it, and so on. And you touch it and what a surprise, you can feel some movement. The spike has ground away a bit of the concrete dust and suddenly it's not as solid as you thought it was...

Three legs like a milking stool and you might have a chance at a vaguely consistent spike/concrete floor interface; four legs, not a chance...

So at low frequencies (a few hertz) your speaker may well be solidly coupled to the floor via its spikes, whereas at a few kilohertz I reckon it'll be completely free to move - isolated from the floor - as the spikes jiggle about in the concrete dust, restrained only by the weave of the carpet...

So I suspect that in situations where your spikes are interfacing directly with a concrete floor, almost any device that brings some controllability and repeatability to that interface will make a significant difference, certainly to the week-to-week consistency of the sound. Whether that difference is positive is of course another matter.



Offline en1omb  
#35 Posted : 01 October 2020 19:51:09(UTC)
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If anyone wants to try a DIY spring isolation solution, I have 6 No. of these Christie and Grey ES20/15 spring mounts, rated at 15kg each (for 20mm deflection):

https://www.christiegrey...04/pl004-issue-f-ecs.pdf

Free to a good home. They have been cluttering my flat for a few years now.

I wanted to try them under my speakers (3 each, which was an immediate mistake), but I under estimated the weight of my speakers, so they didn't really compress. I did notice some cleaning of the signal, but also a lessening of attack in the bass.
Offline Simon Briggs  
#36 Posted : 01 October 2020 22:50:30(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: en1omb Go to Quoted Post
If anyone wants to try a DIY spring isolation solution, I have 6 No. of these Christie and Grey ES20/15 spring mounts, rated at 15kg each (for 20mm deflection):

https://www.christiegrey...04/pl004-issue-f-ecs.pdf

Free to a good home. They have been cluttering my flat for a few years now.

I wanted to try them under my speakers (3 each, which was an immediate mistake), but I under estimated the weight of my speakers, so they didn't really compress. I did notice some cleaning of the signal, but also a lessening of attack in the bass.


Now there's an idea for me to try four of the heavier duty models for my new design which will weigh approx. 200 kgs each speaker?



Offline Simon Briggs  
#37 Posted : 02 October 2020 09:55:22(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: en1omb Go to Quoted Post
If anyone wants to try a DIY spring isolation solution, I have 6 No. of these Christie and Grey ES20/15 spring mounts, rated at 15kg each (for 20mm deflection):

https://www.christiegrey...04/pl004-issue-f-ecs.pdf

Free to a good home. They have been cluttering my flat for a few years now.

I wanted to try them under my speakers (3 each, which was an immediate mistake), but I under estimated the weight of my speakers, so they didn't really compress. I did notice some cleaning of the signal, but also a lessening of attack in the bass.


If available I would like to try these under a smaller loudspeaker system I am using to assess them PM sent
Offline Simon Briggs  
#38 Posted : 06 October 2020 21:35:53(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: en1omb Go to Quoted Post
If anyone wants to try a DIY spring isolation solution, I have 6 No. of these Christie and Grey ES20/15 spring mounts, rated at 15kg each (for 20mm deflection):

https://www.christiegrey...04/pl004-issue-f-ecs.pdf

Free to a good home. They have been cluttering my flat for a few years now.

I wanted to try them under my speakers (3 each, which was an immediate mistake), but I under estimated the weight of my speakers, so they didn't really compress. I did notice some cleaning of the signal, but also a lessening of attack in the bass.


Many thanks for the isolators Smile

Now the fun begins Smile
Offline en1omb  
#39 Posted : 07 October 2020 15:26:31(UTC)
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If nothing else, you might be able to fashion yourself some fancy footwear ;):


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