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Offline IanG-UK  
#41 Posted : 01 January 2013 15:08:46(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ashleym Go to Quoted Post
That Rega looks very interesting.

Speaking of Rega, how about a BMR soundclash with the Rega RS-10, Naim Ovator S-4/6/800 and the, rumoured to be good, Hifi Critic TRK?


to which one could add the CML Etude (already looked at by PM in prototype form)
Offline Martin Colloms  
#42 Posted : 01 January 2013 16:12:10(UTC)
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sorry guys , I would not confront a manufacturers product with a magazine DIY design

Tuned , virtual one off's presented in their ideal conditions are not a fair basis for comparisons with serial production products

There is also a certain degree of politeness required between magazine and industry which is essential for good faith on both sides

We are loaned equipment for review at the manufacturer's expense , including transportation and we must also act in good faith.

Martin Colloms
Offline alexh  
#43 Posted : 01 January 2013 17:11:00(UTC)
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dCs Vivaldi system, Wadia CD players, ATC actives.
Alex H
Offline Pete_w  
#44 Posted : 01 January 2013 22:12:05(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: phil page Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Pete_w Go to Quoted Post
Since CRITIC is currently in pursuit of good DACs, I reckon that the Light Harmonic Da Vinci DAC has got to be worth a punt for a review. It embodies some interesting technology and some interesting thinking.


It's 20,000 bucks in the US

And 20,000 Sterling here in the UK

Phil


Excellent. Anything that big, that ugly, and that expensive has got to have a designer who believes that what he's done is the dog's, erm, is a very fine piece of work...

Martin, I'm not a hifiplus subscriber, what did Paul make of the big Anthem? (I assume you mean the P1 statement at £3k per channel or whatever it is). For various reasons I have a passing interest...
Offline HansW  
#45 Posted : 01 January 2013 22:29:33(UTC)
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A few more suggestions:

- the Devialet integrated
- Pass Labs XP-25, XP-25 and XS 150 or 300
- the Magico Q5

Hans
Offline Togil  
#46 Posted : 02 January 2013 10:02:08(UTC)
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The Devialet has already sadly been rejected in another thread partly on the grounds that there are too many other reviews, and indeed Stereophile has just published one with the usual thorough measurements.
Once again the enormous detail coming from this unit was mentioned which in my view should come before any considerations of rhythm, "upbeat" etc, they are real things extracted from the original recording.
Hans
Offline HansW  
#47 Posted : 02 January 2013 14:42:06(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Togil Go to Quoted Post

The Devialet has already sadly been rejected in another thread partly on the grounds that there are too many other reviews, and indeed Stereophile has just published one with the usual thorough measurements.
Once again the enormous detail coming from this unit was mentioned which in my view should come before any considerations of rhythm, "upbeat" etc, they are real things extracted from the original recording.


I would still appreciate to hear MC's view on it.

Hans
Offline ashleym  
#48 Posted : 02 January 2013 19:10:08(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Togil Go to Quoted Post

The Devialet has already sadly been rejected in another thread partly on the grounds that there are too many other reviews, and indeed Stereophile has just published one with the usual thorough measurements.
Once again the enormous detail coming from this unit was mentioned which in my view should come before any considerations of rhythm, "upbeat" etc, they are real things extracted from the original recording.


I know this thread isnt about notions of rhythm but.........I would argue that systems with good timing allow the rhythm of the recording to come through. These systems dont add the feeling of rhythm.

The usual debate here (I am not applying it to you!) is:
1) listen to a Naim system,
2) oh they have boosts in the frequency response to "add" rhythm,
3) here I reply what frequencies as they sound useful and I will use them in my recording? And have a look at the test results of their CD players

uniti

CD555

Sorry but this is a bit of a frustration for meCursing

Edited by user 02 January 2013 19:13:04(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline kengale  
#49 Posted : 02 January 2013 21:48:21(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pete_w Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: phil page Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Pete_w Go to Quoted Post
Since CRITIC is currently in pursuit of good DACs, I reckon that the Light Harmonic Da Vinci DAC has got to be worth a punt for a review. It embodies some interesting technology and some interesting thinking.


It's 20,000 bucks in the US

And 20,000 Sterling here in the UK

Phil


Excellent. Anything that big, that ugly, and that expensive has got to have a designer who believes that what he's done is the dog's, erm, is a very fine piece of work...

Martin, I'm not a hifiplus subscriber, what did Paul make of the big Anthem? (I assume you mean the P1 statement at £3k per channel or whatever it is). For various reasons I have a passing interest...


God, isn't the Da Vinci ugly! And what on earth does "Automatic LSB Correction
As research advanced, we confronted the Least Significant Bit (LSB) extension error, a problem that plagues every currently available DAC. LSB is a mathematical error affecting 16- and 24-bit digital files that causes a mismatch of up to three percent in every note. Da Vinci solves this with new and proprietary technology that automatically corrects each music sample." mean?



Offline Pete_w  
#50 Posted : 02 January 2013 22:36:53(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: kengale Go to Quoted Post

God, isn't the Da Vinci ugly! And what on earth does "Automatic LSB Correction
As research advanced, we confronted the Least Significant Bit (LSB) extension error, a problem that plagues every currently available DAC. LSB is a mathematical error affecting 16- and 24-bit digital files that causes a mismatch of up to three percent in every note. Da Vinci solves this with new and proprietary technology that automatically corrects each music sample." mean?


Lord knows! Well, just based on those words, I suppose that a lot of recordings are made at >16 bit resolution, and are truncated to 16 bits for distribution, so if you're feeding that 16 bit datastream into the most significant bits of a >16 bit DAC, then you have the opportunity to undo some of the truncation. Assuming, of course, that you have a mystic-meg algorithm that can reliably guess the data that was thrown away. Mind you, if that was actually possible, you'd expect the guy who invented it to be living on a private island with a huge yacht, not hawking DACs round hifi shows :-). Perhaps - taking tongue slightly out of cheek - he's adding some sort of shaped-noise dither? I dunno, I'm firmware engineer, not a DSP engineer.

So I stand by my comment. It's very big, it's very expensive, and it's most certainly very ugly. And the guy promoting it did seem to understand how it worked and seemed genuinely convinced that it was some sort of step forward on both a technical and audio level. Martin ought to have a play, though it will mean plugging in a computer in his listening room...

Offline kengale  
#51 Posted : 03 January 2013 00:26:29(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Pete_w Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kengale Go to Quoted Post

God, isn't the Da Vinci ugly! And what on earth does "Automatic LSB Correction
As research advanced, we confronted the Least Significant Bit (LSB) extension error, a problem that plagues every currently available DAC. LSB is a mathematical error affecting 16- and 24-bit digital files that causes a mismatch of up to three percent in every note. Da Vinci solves this with new and proprietary technology that automatically corrects each music sample." mean?


Lord knows! ... Perhaps - taking tongue slightly out of cheek - he's adding some sort of shaped-noise dither? I dunno, I'm firmware engineer, not a DSP engineer.



I thought this was done as a matter of routine at the recording stage these days, and has been for a long time. I've seen CD tests that have reliably dug out -109dB and sometimes lower recorded sinewaves with very low distortion, entirely because of the shaped noise dither applied at the truncation stage of the recording. All dithering it again would produce is 3dB worse snr, without any gain in distortion performance. And when you read more of the blurb, the DAC uses interpolation algorithms (which the designer rather disingenuously describes as "not oversampling") - just like the old and now almost forgotten Legato-Link DAC's.

Edited by user 03 January 2013 21:25:57(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Martin Colloms  
#52 Posted : 04 January 2013 08:39:32(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ashleym Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Togil Go to Quoted Post

The Devialet has already sadly been rejected in another thread partly on the grounds that there are too many other reviews, and indeed Stereophile has just published one with the usual thorough measurements.
Once again the enormous detail coming from this unit was mentioned which in my view should come before any considerations of rhythm, "upbeat" etc, they are real things extracted from the original recording.


I know this thread isnt about notions of rhythm but.........I would argue that systems with good timing allow the rhythm of the recording to come through. These systems dont add the feeling of rhythm.

The usual debate here (I am not applying it to you!) is:
1) listen to a Naim system,
2) oh they have boosts in the frequency response to "add" rhythm,
3) here I reply what frequencies as they sound useful and I will use them in my recording? And have a look at the test results of their CD players

uniti

CD555

Sorry but this is a bit of a frustration for meCursing



I recall no audibly perceptible measured frequency error on Naim digital replay units , CD or DAC , indeed these have been historically so neutral as to show very good compatibility with non NAIM system.

There is some in house 'character' as there is with all coherently designed product lines


Martin Colloms

Offline jostber  
#53 Posted : 05 January 2013 14:10:46(UTC)
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The Perfect8 loudspeaker might not be available for review, but it would be interesting to hear a unbiased evalution of a glass speaker like this which wins best sound awards at CES yearly:

http://www.perfect8.com/



Offline Paul Messenger  
#54 Posted : 06 January 2013 03:54:38(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: jostber Go to Quoted Post
The Perfect8 loudspeaker might not be available for review, but it would be interesting to hear a unbiased evalution of a glass speaker like this which wins best sound awards at CES yearly:

http://www.perfect8.com/




My only experience of a glass loudspeaker was of a much more modest model called Victoria, from French brand Waterfall. It sounded rather good, suggesting that glass might well be a good material. I doubt whether anyone in Europe imports Perfect8 from the US, though I do know that Dutch company Crystal Cable has some interesting upmarket Arabesque speakers with glass enclosures
Offline hifi addict  
#55 Posted : 06 January 2013 10:33:56(UTC)
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There not too far from you Paul.

Perfect8 Technologies AB
Pilgatan 2A
587 31 Linköping
Sweden
Tel: +46 708 15 22 31
Offline Martin Colloms  
#56 Posted : 06 January 2013 10:55:42(UTC)
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Many materials may be used for enclosures, and most are capable of good results if used with care
There is no magic material, but the co-damped laminated glass panels of Perfect 8 are very certainly very low in self resonance with very quick decays.

Plate material does not lend itself so well to acoustic sculpting , low diffraction forms, so such a design will need to balance that potential loss against the gain in lowered colouration.

Speaker design remains a judicious balance of many constructional aspects and design factors, and the particular interests of a designer often find expression here. Then you have to see whether you agree with that interpretation of fidelity, in all its dimensions.

Martin Colloms
Offline jostber  
#57 Posted : 06 January 2013 12:30:41(UTC)
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I just read this interesting interview with Jacob George from Rethm Speakers where he discusses some of the detailed choices they make in their design, might be relevant to what Martin said.

http://dagogo.com/an-int...ge-of-rethm-loudspeakers

UserPostedImage



Offline jostber  
#58 Posted : 06 January 2013 17:04:21(UTC)
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Offline jostber  
#59 Posted : 06 January 2013 17:53:19(UTC)
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DAC/Preamp/Headamp:

B.M.C. PureDac

CDP/DAC:

Neodio Origine

DAC:

Electrocompaniet ECD2

Turntable:

Brinkmann Bardo DD with the RøNT II valve power supply

Offline jostber  
#60 Posted : 07 January 2013 16:35:02(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: jostber Go to Quoted Post
DAC/Preamp/Headamp:

B.M.C. PureDac

CDP/DAC:

Neodio Origine

DAC:

Electrocompaniet ECD2

Turntable:

Brinkmann Bardo DD with the RøNT II valve power supply



The PureDAC:

http://parttimeaudiophil...unces-puredac/#more-4703
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